Recent rants have prompted me to offer some insight as to why the www.groupon.com photography sessions are a waste of time. So I’ll get right to it and break it down.
For this assignment, please refer to the following groupon offer.(link has since been removed: offer noted below) This is not a critique of photography, nor a personal attack, simply an analysis of the business principles at work in this offer.
1275 deals were sold. That’s a sh$* ton. They’ve already paid, so now it’s about delivery. What goes into a 1 hour photo shoot (studio or location up to 1 hour away), free 8×10 print, DVD of images, and 20% off additional prints. Offer expires in 1 year, photo shoot can include up to 8 people, and can include up to 3 outfit changes. To predict costs, some assumptions will need to be made.
Assumptions:
- 50% of clients choose to be photographed in studio, and the other 50% on location.
- The location shoots are on average a 30 min commute.
- Groupon.com charges 50% of selling price as their fee.
- Shoot times/dates are not limited by parents’ work schedules.
- Photographer works a 40 hour work week
What a 1hr photo shoot really breaks down to:
In Studio:
- Emails – setting shoot times, general admin per client (30 min)
- Prep of gear – already set up (15 min)
- Transit (15 min/way = 30 min total)
- Shooting (1hr)
- Downloading/Editing/Uploading/Archiving (1hr minimum)
- Emails – follow up, general admin (15 min)
- Delivery of goods / Order print (30 min)
Total time investment: 4hrs per client
On Location:
- Emails – setting shoot times, general admin per client (30 min)
- Prep of gear – set up on location (30 min)
- Transit (30 min/way = 1hr total)
- Shooting (1hr)
- Downloading/Editing/Uploading/Archiving (1hr minimum)
- Emails – follow up, general admin (15 min)
- Delivery of goods / Order print (30 min)
Total time investment: 4hrs 45min per client
5 Minutes and a Calculator Could Have Saved You From That Mess:
Seriously. I grabbed a scratch pad at my desk when I heard about this offer, and did the math. Here’s what it looks like:
Now, to complete all the photo shoots in 1 year, take 40hrs/wk and multiply by 2.45 (years to complete all the photo shoots). Now you’re finished in 1 year, and working approx. 98 hrs per week. Enjoy! Not to worry, there’s only more bad news:
I don’t know about you all, but I’m not keen on working 98 hrs a week for an annual salary of $41,437.50 and I’m certainly not keen on working 40 hrs a week for an annual salary of $16,913.26. You might as well be working at McDonald’s on minimum wage, earning an annual salary of $15,288 where at least you have benefits, and paid vacation.
Lessons Learned Today:
- www.groupon.com = good / Pimping out cheap photography on groupon = bad
- Repeat after me, “5 minutes + Calculator = GOOD”
- Pricing your work is not easy, but then again, it’s not rocket science either
- You get what you pay for
Follow up post here “Groupon & Photography : How to Make it Work”
#1 by Jodie Otte on September 15, 2010 - 14:36
Thank you for this. I’m personally sick and tired of our industry being screwed up because of people making really DUMB business decisions like this kind of goupon ad… and I haven’t even mentioned the stealing yet…
#2 by Jodie Otte on September 15, 2010 - 14:37
But don’t forget – no vacation or sick time. Can anyone work all 52 weeks of the year nonstop?
#3 by marcus on September 15, 2010 - 14:44
And that’s all before you factor in the actual costs of doing business. Once you factor in real costs like gas back and forth to the location shoots, rent and utilities at the studio, gear repair/replacement, etc. you’re going to end up losing more money than you made from the offer.
#4 by Mike Hall on September 15, 2010 - 14:47
Very nice write-up… I can’t help but shake my head every time I see one of these offers pop-up on GroupOn.com and elsewhere. My lovely wife Liana has certainly had her share to say about the economics of these offers! I wish them all well!!!
#5 by Nikki Loren on September 15, 2010 - 14:47
Awesome! Simply awesome! =]
#6 by bethany on September 15, 2010 - 14:53
A thought, but perhaps a percentage of those impulse buyers won’t get around to scheduling their sessions? Not something to bank on, but probably something most Groupon vendors are thankful for.
#7 by Jessica on September 15, 2010 - 14:53
Thanks for posting this. I did a little math of my own similar to what you did. I assume that since she didn’t note that the disk included EDITED images that they were going to be the originals and not edited photos. Editing can add in 2-5 hours more per session – then she’d really be in trouble.
#8 by Danielle on September 15, 2010 - 15:02
And don’t forget to factor in the 8×10 print, the DVD, the shipping and packaging, Feds need their cut, business insurance, commercial license, etc. Marcus is right, once everything is factored in she would lose money rather than make any.
#9 by Linda on September 15, 2010 - 15:11
Don’t forget the to take income taxes out of that income! And in addition to those mentioned above, insurance! And you totally forgot the cost of goods here! That’s the first thing you need to deduct from that total! True income is very much lower than you’ve quoted here!
#10 by Ben De Rienzo on September 15, 2010 - 15:17
This was a total scam! Loads of images were stolen off other photogs. Crazy.
#11 by Kash on September 15, 2010 - 15:28
Nice breakdown. We did this in studio with the last Groupon photo offer from Atlanta. My staff associates were going crazy seeing 2000 Groupons sold. They had visions of jumpstarting their own photography business the same way. We sat down over lunch and did the same math and they finally saw the light.
$32.50 per session with little chance of any upsale at all would make for one very tired photographer. I would envision burnout occurring very quickly.
Marcus is right as well. Add in your gas, company overhead, the inability to shoot hardly any true, paying jobs and this is one very losing proposition for a photographer.
It reminds me of an old saying my father shared with me years ago…
“I’m only losing $5 per client, but I plan on making it up on volume.”
#12 by sherriinnis on September 15, 2010 - 15:41
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Most of you rightfully pointed out that I was leaving out expenses, or insurance, taxes, etc. You’re absolutely correct that these expenses add up, and would negate ANY financial gain. I didn’t go into too much depth with the ‘cost of doing business’ in this post so as not to lose anyone. Glad to know my audience can keep me on my toes
#13 by Dan Depew on September 15, 2010 - 17:19
Great post Sherri!
#14 by Steve Skelton on September 15, 2010 - 22:46
Wow… and I thought working at the grocery store sucked. I hope she really loves working for pennies on the dollar. Have you pointed this out to them yet, Sherri?
#15 by Tammy Warnock on September 16, 2010 - 01:59
Thanks so much for breaking this down. I think people only see the initial dollar signs without doing the mental math on the true cost of doing business. I guess that’s what separates the pros from the others.
#16 by Karen Lippowiths on September 16, 2010 - 09:54
Thanks for pointing this out. Not to get too technical, but I’ve taught the business of photography for a few years now and mentor photographers around the country. Here’s how it SHOULD break down:
For each gross dollar, you should expect to spend about a third on COS (variable costs associated with the costs to produce the work), about a third for business administration (fixed costs such as insurance, web site, equipment regardless of how many sessions you do), and a third or a benchmark percentage of 35-40% for NI+OC (net income + owner’s compensation). This means, for every $1,000, you should aim to bring home $350-400.
I used to price my work “like everyone else” and was making about the figure quoted above
Then, I tripled my rates and let go of ALL unprofitable business and moved up the proverbial food chain. My sales average $2,300 per session now and I do anywhere from 50-100 sessions a year (depending on my availability, the economy, etc.).
I am a very low-volume high-service business (including in-home design consultation and hand delivery of goods), so I average 10-15 hours per client. 10 hours if it’s an “easy” or repeat client, 15 if it’s a new and high-maintenance client. I manage my time carefully. This is the ONLY way you can make a photography business work!
I thought the best medicine for this woman would have been for her to try to fulfill all of these sessions and let her take a huge loss on the time and deliverables. Then again, she was a fraud and a scam and I’m sure she had no intentions of doing any real work whatsoever.
My .02. Hope this sheds a little light. Thanks again for the great post
Karen Lippowiths
#17 by sherriinnis on September 16, 2010 - 10:20
@karen – thanks for the in depth look at your biz practices. See you’re up in Detroit (represent MI!!). Thanks for stopping by.
#18 by scottbourne on September 16, 2010 - 10:47
Nicely done. Figure out the real costs of doing business BEFORE you open the doors.
#19 by John Shim on September 16, 2010 - 13:32
Yay! This is why you’re managing Zack’s studio!
Seriously.. 5 minutes + calculator = God send.
#20 by Michelle Posey on September 16, 2010 - 13:46
I like the summary at the end. I’ve been thinking for a long time of doing something like this for wedding photography, since most prospective clients seem to assume I *only* work the 6 or 8 or whatever hours for the day of the wedding. One note: the link no longer takes me to the Groupon offer you are talking about. I have seen it, though.
#21 by Gina Parry on September 16, 2010 - 18:35
Nice article, thank you.
#22 by aileen on September 16, 2010 - 20:54
great job sherri. love this analysis. simple and to the point. great to find your blog. A
#23 by sherriinnis on September 16, 2010 - 22:13
Thanks A! Hope you’re doing well!!
#24 by Ashley Mauldin on September 17, 2010 - 00:52
Maybe this will deter all of the people who think they can just pick up a camera and be a “Photographer”. Thanks for breaking down what you will end up making if you try to compete with price. Personally, I prefer to be hired as an artist…not as “The Girl With the Camera”. So just like any custom piece of art, it’s going to cost you.
#25 by Yvonne on September 17, 2010 - 11:52
Wow – just an hour on editing? I would say you need to push that out to 3 hours. Not 3 hours of just editing but like you said – downloading, archiving, burning to CDs, etc etc. This is a great analysis you have done!!! I know someone who did one in San Francisco and I believe he sold 150. I think just about everyone cashed them in but a large majority waited until the last few weeks. He decided to extend his deadline because he knew people would be really upset.
Ugggg!!! Way to devalue what you love to do!
#26 by Kevin Newsome on September 17, 2010 - 13:31
Excellent analysis of how this might play out for the uneducated newbies in the photography profession. Looks like an easy mountain of cash until you factor in the labor involved. Not unlike shooting a wedding these days. It’s not just a 6 hour shoot, it’s 40 hours of workflow!
#27 by Rob W on September 17, 2010 - 18:45
Wow! A lot of hate and discontent here. My guess is that not many people who commented here actually have any real experience with Groupon. I do. I work with a local business that was featured on Groupon several months ago and is due to be feautured again in the future.
While I agree that if you run a studio with it’s own separate O/H, give away the farm with lots of prints/high res- digital images, offer to drive all around town and sell 2,000 of these packages then you probably are screwed. However, let’s look at a different way of doing it.
1) How about if first you cap the # of Groupons available to be sold at say 400?
2) Then you preselect a few on-site locations to shoot at and allow customers to schedule online to fit themselves into your schedule so that you minimize travel time/cost as well as minimize time on the phone.
3) If you have set up your studio say in your house and don’t have separate O/H you don’t have to worry about covering those extra expenses.
4) Only provide maybe 1 11″ x 14″ print that is too large to fit on a typical home scanner and only provide 1 200×300 pixel digital file of that same image.
5) Charge extra for mailing costs.
6) Only edit the selected image rather than many/all of the images unless other images are ordered.
Taking the approach outlines above changes the economics significantly.
Now, let’s look at two other factors: Only ~50% of the Groupons will ever be redeemed, so you just cut your expenses in 1/2. On top of that you are looking realistically at ~$150 upsell per client, so you just multiplied the revenue by 5X with very little extra effort or marginal cost.
Groupon is not a good tool for an existing business with a strong business base; but don’t crap all over it just because it is allowing newer businesses to become established.
#28 by sherriinnis on September 18, 2010 - 17:05
@Rob W ; I’m not sure if you were referring to this post when you said, “don’t crap all over it…” referring to negative talk about Groupon. There was a lot of hatred in the discussion ON Groupon, but in this post, it’s pretty positive. Just to clarify, I’m pro-groupon, hence the line “Groupon = good”
I’m more interested in helping photographers set themselves up for success if they decide to use Groupon. You made some excellent points to this effect.
#29 by Rob W on September 19, 2010 - 12:59
@Sherriinnis: Groupon is awesome for newer photographers with low overhead and looking for modest upsells. Some of my comments were probably more pointed to some of the wider Internet audience.
#30 by Rob W on September 17, 2010 - 18:58
I’ll also point out that the search engine ranking data shows that there was a lasting increase in keyword rankings on Google that I can attribute to the one-way inbound links generated from being on Groupon. These increased rankings have let to more search visitors and more new business.
Figure out how to prosper with new online opportunities rather than thumbing your nose at them.
#31 by Kash on September 18, 2010 - 17:18
Rob,
I don’t think many on here are thumbing their nose at Groupon, rather, they want to open the eyes of the wanna be photographers who are killing their business by offering “too much”. I personally have coined this…”Death by Groupon”. I think the options you have mentioned have merit, but I would be curious to see if Groupon, giving the option of having a restricted offer vs. an open ended offer, would go with the restricted one. The photographer in Atlanta from 2 months ago who offered everything and sold 2000 at $49 each definitely made more income for Groupon than someone who might follow the restrictions you have suggested.
I guess Groupon has the option of listing a photographer that generates 2000 sales at $49 or 400 sales at $49…which path do you think they will take? If I’m Groupon, and I don’t have to worry about hardly anything after the sale, then I want the sale to be as large as possible.
Now, if we were to find out that Groupon were only offering to place photographers who do offer everything for next to nothing, then I would say they are taking advantage of the situation. But who knows if that’s the case or not.
FWIW, Groupon is one of the most amazing business models I have ever seen, but I don’t think a small, time intensive, service business can benefit from it as much as a retail or quick type service business. Unless they are really limiting what they offer. And the issue recently has been they don’t limit it at all.
#32 by Rob W on September 19, 2010 - 13:07
I have 1st hand knowledge since I handle Groupon promotions for both a photography business and several other types of businesses.
Here are the facts:
1) The deals Groupon offers are very dependent upon the specific Groupon Account Manager. Some of the Account Managers seem to be more business savvy and not just looking to put local businesses through the grinder.
2) Groupon IS most definitely willing to both limit the quantity and crafting the offer to maximize upsell. After my photography client runs their next Groupon, I’ll post the link. My previous post is based EXACTLY on the upcoming offer.
#33 by Lee S on September 22, 2010 - 19:46
I’m right with you Rob. I just contacted Groupon today and am awaiting a reply. It’s amazing how much my math and idea for a realistic offer match what you posted above. I still don’t think $49 is viable, but $89 with a cap of 300 or 400 is much more doable.
Remember, unlike working at McDonalds, you can reap the benefits of repeat business and referral clients. Managing future expectations is important, but future business isn’t subject to groupon’s 50% surcharge either.
#34 by Tara on September 19, 2010 - 05:44
The simple math to me just wasn’t adding up and I like that the actual math (instead of that unique math I do in my head) was actually kinda of the same.
Please more business posts! I think it would be something very useful (to me at least!).
#35 by Jodie Otte on September 20, 2010 - 12:04
I did some figures giving her the benefit of the doubt that she doesn’t have a lot of expenses – I have her making $6/hour at 60 hours per week.
see the bottom of this — http://photographerscam.blogspot.com
#36 by Jodie Otte on September 20, 2010 - 12:26
But then I plugged in more realistic figures into http://photographerscam.blogspot.com and came up with the more realistic figures. She would have to work 3.7 years at 50 cents per hour to fulfill her 1200 Groupon clients.
Thanks Groupon for making it possible for photographers to work at those excellent prices :/
#37 by Rob W on September 20, 2010 - 14:51
I’m not defending what she did….however, I read your analysis on your blog and it is very skewed. Of course this isn’t a good deal for someone who has a lot of overhead and is going to drive all around town. However, factor in some realistic upsell and the story changes pretty significantly.
#38 by Linda on September 20, 2010 - 22:41
Who knew! I actually purchased my first Groupon today for Vitality Pilates! but this just takes the cake. Interesting read.
#39 by amy k on September 21, 2010 - 10:44
Rob, you obviously work for Groupon (correct me if I am wrong)… the chances for a photographer’s upsale are pretty slim if they give away edited files on disc and the client is already searching for a bargain. The chances of the client spending $300+ on a print sale are MINIMAL if not far-fetched. I chatted with the gal with this offer (http://www.groupon.com/deals/sarah-esther-photography-atlanta/posts)….she has already broken a lens and its only a couple months into the deal. Sad, very sad.. “Groupon may work for products, but I’m so not a fan for creative business. Great way to commoditize the subjective and strip all value. Yuck”, http://twitter.com/seanlow/status/24662718055
#40 by Rob W on September 21, 2010 - 14:50
I most definitely do not work for Groupon.
I agree that if you give away high resolution edited images that the upsale potential is low. Read my “photographer’s Groupon recipe” above. $150 upsells are very realistic. The lesson here is: design the Groupon to keep time/expenses low and protect the upsale.
#41 by Rob W on September 21, 2010 - 14:57
BTW: I just read the details on the Sarah Esther offer. Of course this offer is a disaster from a financial perspective. She offers an on-location shoot within 1 hour from Atlanta and then gives away ALL of the high resolution images. It’s crazy!
Groupon is no different than any other marketing channel……you have to design a sales offer to bring in new clients and not give away everything in the process.
#42 by Lindsay on September 21, 2010 - 13:46
Anyone who can edit an hour long shoot in one hour is simply not doing a very great job anyway…only an hour for editing would be a dream come true!
#43 by KL on September 21, 2010 - 19:02
Actually, that’s quite an assumption. Many people would recognize that if you can edit your sessions successfully in an hour (you’re assuming they can’t, which is unfounded) then it means they are simply doing a GREAT job because their in-camera images are what they should be due to proper lighting and use of the camera settings.
#44 by sherriinnis on September 21, 2010 - 19:27
getting it right in camera = teaching of Zack Arias (#onelight workshop, photo 101 workshop)
Good point.
#45 by Stephanie on September 21, 2010 - 13:53
I looked into groupon and they said that since I was a newer business, with no write ups, I didnt qualify to participate in their program. SO much for excellent choice for an up and coming business. Ive had my studio for 4 years, so not just out of the gate.
I know there was a photographer on groupon that had stolen all the photos that were listed on her site and was advertising it as her own work. She was banned from groupon and all the money was refunded
#46 by Rob W on September 21, 2010 - 15:26
@Stephanie: Since I specialize in Search Engine Optimization, I can tell you that every aspect of your online reputation is important. You should be spending time building it.
#47 by Cheryl on September 21, 2010 - 15:06
I just can’t believe that nobody’s discussing the fact that this was a scam. The woman was never selling a service.
The shots that were on her web site were all stolen images from flickr.
Groupon, in fact, investigated and shut her down.
#48 by sherriinnis on September 21, 2010 - 15:12
See the interview on cbsatlanta. She’s a local photographer here in ATL, where I’m based. They did the interview in her studio, didn’t show her face, but you could see it was a working studio with equipment. Not sure it was a scam, but definitely something fishy there!
#49 by Aaron Z. on September 21, 2010 - 15:13
I did a groupon for my photography business a couple months ago and would love to do it again. The guy I worked with was great and wasn’t trying get me to keep building up a hug sale for them but instead was actually trying to find a good balance between making profit for them and helping to build my business to a manageable scale. I’m just starting out and have very low overhead. I sold 69 groupons which were valued at $230 sold for $40 – it was basically $230 in gift certificates and all prints and everything were to be purchased ala carte.
I didn’t make alot from those initial sales ($20×69=$1380) but I was looking at it more as an opportunity to get my name out there and build a portfolio. Realisitically, about half of the people that purchased a groupon have actually redeemed it but I have made significant upsales as a result of those that have and have been able to pay for my final 2 years of college with just 3 months work (after taxes and overhead are taken out.) I have already created repeat clients and know that without the groupon sale, I probably would not have been able to focus on building my business they way I currently am now.
Yes, the example above with the huge amount of sales is rediculous and unrealistic in a manageable sense, but so long as you figure out what you and your business are capable of handling – and limit how many groupons you’ll sell – and not look at groupon as way of building a business to your ultimate goal but instead as just a stepping stone to getting to where you want to be. Starting/building a business is hard, and making it a success won’t come down to a one-day offer on groupon.
I basically comes down to knowing your own (and you business’) limits and sticking to realistic goals and terms.
#50 by sherriinnis on September 21, 2010 - 16:17
thanks for sharing your story of success!
#51 by Holly on September 21, 2010 - 15:47
Earlier this year I had the “opportunity” to participate in a groupon offer; after running the numbers and figuring out that groupon was pushing me to top out at 300 sessions (instead of the 75-100) I preferred, I passed. Let someone do that. Because I passed, I’m able to participate in another offer with another company (GivShop.com based in Austin, promoting only local biz AND supporting local non-profits). The % retained is much better for my business, plus this new company is much more in line with my personal & professional philosophy….yes, I will work for the $, but there is satisfaction that I would not get at groupon.
#52 by Jana on September 21, 2010 - 16:45
I’m sorry but I wouldn’t even want the Dana D. person to photograph mud. My 2 year old could take better pictures then these.
http://danadawesphotography.com/Dana_Dawes_Photography/Portfolio.html
#53 by cheryl on September 21, 2010 - 17:54
When all of it went down, her portfolio was packed with images.
Other people’s images
And then she claimed she was hacked, and poof! her site went down.
#54 by Tanya on March 17, 2011 - 14:26
Apparently she does not even know how to spell her own name… The URL is danadawes but on the top of the portfolio page it is spelled as Dana Daws.
#55 by Tracie Howe on September 21, 2010 - 23:56
Thanks for breaking it down. I was considering doing this today, but didn’t know if it was worth everything involved. After placing a bid on MiNeeds, I was offered the chance to offer my services on Groupon (through MiNeeds… not sure how that works exactly), but it looked like you could limit the amount of people you offered it to. That’s why I considered doing it. That way you don’t have to overwork yourself and can possibly offer it again a year later. Still not sure how the MiNeeds/ Groupon thing works though.
#56 by Louis Dallara on September 28, 2010 - 14:52
Great write thanks for sharing your insight.
#57 by Contus on October 1, 2010 - 07:48
Really nice post… I’ve just tweet it!
#58 by Adam Nyholt on October 12, 2010 - 17:32
So your calculations are based on some assumptions. And those assumptions indicate a larger assumption: that the photographer is an idiot.
Maybe he/she is, but that doesn’t mean Groupon is a bad thing for the industry, and it doesn’t mean it devalues us as photographers. I myself will be running an offer this week, and I have spent a lot more than 5 minutes with a calculator. Me and my team (I’ll have 5 full time people on staff helping me with groupon) have been running numbers and scenarios for months, and our projections and research show it’s going to be very profitable. I think if someone puts together a solid business model, and plans to efficiently deal with an insane amount of volume, it can work out to be a great thing.
Definitely don’t plan on offering one of these if you’re a 1-man (or even 2-man) operation. You’ll be sunk. Also, don’t do it if you’re not very good at making print and album sales after-the-fact, because that’s where all your money is going to come from. Not from the paltry check you get back from Groupon.
#59 by sherriinnis on October 19, 2010 - 13:43
Good on you Adam! Best of luck on your offer!! Let us know how it went!
#60 by Adam Nyholt on October 19, 2010 - 14:48
@sherriinnis
Thanks! We sold out at 500 sessions. We fielded lots of questions all day and explained to everyone that they should plan on spending at least a few hundred dollars on wall art after the fact. We have automatic emails going out to them throughout the process to help manage expectations and further prepare them to spend more money. I have no doubt that many will take their included 8×10 and run, but we’re predicting an average of $400-600 in print sales per client. We’ve actually booked about 50 of our sessions so far, and people are very excited. It seems we’re delivering a better level of customer service than most Groupon-frequenters are used to, so that’s good.
#61 by Adam Nyholt on October 12, 2010 - 17:34
Follow up:
I am thankful that you have written this post, however. Because no doubt there are many photogs out there who were considering offering a Groupon without thinking it all through.
#62 by Stuart on November 10, 2010 - 15:45
I made Groupon work for me (and several other sites as well).
You just have to know what to offer and what not to offer.
NO restaurant has a deal on groupon for takeout (always “dine in only”) why so you buy a soft drink, a beer or desert and if you go to a restaurant who wants to go alone, so you bring a friend.
Apply these concepts to photography and ROCK a deal site (just not in my area lol.)
STuart
#63 by Stuart on November 10, 2010 - 15:47
oh and BTW I am a one man operation and it still works. Just do it right!
#64 by Victoria McKinlay on November 13, 2010 - 19:12
Is it better to sell a session or a gift certificate? If I was to use Groupon down the road.
#65 by Casey on November 15, 2010 - 08:13
I believe Groupon can work effectively for a photography business, but I’m not sure how this company is making any money. And the photography is actually pretty good:
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/london-special/allPhoto/149621
Note:
- £1 per 4×6
- £3 per 5×7
- £8 per A4 airbrushed picture
- £15 per A3 airbrushed picture
#66 by Scott Webb on March 16, 2011 - 10:06
Clearly one this is obvious – Groupon is #WINNING
#67 by gr1 on March 16, 2011 - 10:11
No one said acquiring customers was cheap.
#68 by Gary Miller on March 16, 2011 - 10:33
Thanks for pointing out the futility of this whole Groupon thing. Giving discounts and lowering your prices to gain business is a losing model. You want to add value and raise your prices because you are worth more, you have more value to your clients. Using coupons like this only devalues you in the eyes of your clients and will not get you any repeat business because they have been trained to pay less and only with a sale/coupon.
#69 by Ivor Morgan on March 16, 2011 - 11:02
You are assuming that all the tog gets is 50% of $65. But if 8 people show up for a shoot how happy will they be with one 8 x 10 between them and a CD of images likely at 72 ppi? My guess is not very and then Dana will happily sell them more copies at $20 and larger images at $70 and albums and slideshows to music and and and.
These deal work IF you have the chitzpah to onsell like mad.
My guess – Dana not as Dumb as you all think. Betcha she gets $32.50 from the coupon and a good $200 from each client who shows up.
#70 by Crystal O'Connor on March 16, 2011 - 14:33
This is so right on the MONEY! There is a way to make money in photography…you have to create multiple streams of income though….Passive income, Recurring income, Leveraged income and then the Active…Active should only be about 10% of your income…which is what you are referring to in the break down analysis. You photographers are talented and deserve to make well over six figures! It CAN be done…and with your creativity you can do it faster then most. You need a plan though…but it will work!
#71 by ArenaCreative on March 17, 2011 - 08:41
Yeah… that’s insanity. Thanks for sharing your breakdown of this
#72 by Mindy Roman on March 17, 2011 - 13:24
Resources such as the 1 you described right here is going to be extremely beneficial to myself!
#73 by Chris Manning on March 17, 2011 - 13:48
A good alternative might be SCVNGR’s new Level Up service. It’s a location-based deal service, but the beauty is that as customers come back again and again, their deals keep getting better, which promotes loyalty and repeat customers, while letting you scale the deals to keep the cheapskates from getting a great deal and then never coming back to you again. It seems like a service that could really work.
#74 by Rene Euresti on May 24, 2011 - 20:02
There is something that is missing from this dialogue. Is this a business or an art form? If this is an art form then Groupon is not for you. If it is a business then this vehicle has its merits. From a business persective I see a lot of benefits:
First, do not think linearly. This can be very successful if the business has more than one photographer. At Signature Photography, Inc. we have four photographers on staff and a few more that are seasonal. I wouldn’t mind keep a few photographers busy in between projects.
Secondly, the redemption rate also makes this quite attractive. Again, from a business perspective you simply choose to limit the time per client in order to keep your profits at a maximum. With a 50%-65% redemption rate it is a good gamble.
Thirdly, this is a great opportunity to upsell. If you do your job well you will take extremely beautiful pictures. Pictures that they must purchase or pictures that offer an upselling opportunity.
Fourthly, what a great way to get your name out there. Not only in the real world but in the virtual world. The more hits on your name/website the more likely your sight will come up on search engines. AND you get paid while doing it.
And lastly, you get to make a little money while marketing yourself. I believe if you cannot market one-to-one and create a profitable relationship, then you should not be in the photography business. Remember IT IS A BUSINESS.
I hope this does not come across too strong, but I see so many talented photographers forget the business end of it. For example I would kill to have business during the slow summer months so that I can keep more photographers on staff full time. Even if it is a break even project. AGAIN, from a business perspective you have to plan for the slow times as well as be prepared for the busy ones.
#75 by Otto Koota on December 10, 2011 - 12:36
I totally agree,
There is so many talented photographers getting hung up on being artists and not thinking about the business side.
We have run Groupon in the past and you can average $150 up sales per shoot. Now you can take 5min + calculator = good business
#76 by Jennifer on August 12, 2011 - 10:04
I just wanted to say thanks for the info. Although I don’t agree.
This is the 2nd Groupon I have done and we have set this up for up sales. Even in the purchasing process our clients know if they want digital images it will be an add’l 250-600 for those.
The last Groupon we ran I made on average and add’l $500 per client! Yes, that is right $500! Yes, we had a handful of clients that just wanted their 8×10′s but almost all of our clients purchased at lest $300 and then we had those that purchased over $2000 in prints.
Yes, Groupon is not for every photographer but, if you have the sales and no how you can make it work. I make my clients come in to order with me before everything is placed online. If you just put it online they won’t buy!
The problem with most photographers that do Groupon is they give away everything under the moon! Yes, i agree you won’t make money that way!!!!
We also got a lot of leads to weddings, events and a catalog shoot for a clothing company all because of Groupon.
#77 by jenny root on January 25, 2012 - 11:57
Thank you so much for posting this, i had no idea groupon did that… I have had people ask me if i ever thought about using groupon, i never thought about it and didn’t really even know what it was. i contacted a groupon rep just to see what it was about, and she did not give up any info, besides it was an awesome thing to do for your business, to get the word out. I never contacted her back, i thought it sounded more like a pain than any help. After reading this, i am glad i didn’t, and now if someone asks me if i am going to put my business on groupon i can tell them no and can back it up
… Thanks so much